Director Justin McConnell, Co-writer/Producer/Special FX Kevin Hutchinson and Actor John Fantasia kindly took time out of their respective schedules to answer a few questions for me about their movie The Collapsed. You can check out my review of the movie here
JMc – Justin McConnell, KH – Kevin Hutchinson, JF – John Fantasia
Hi everyone, thanks for taking the time to answer these questions.
To JMc: As you know I recently watched The Collapsed and thoroughly enjoyed it. Does it have a US release date yet?
JMc: Thank you. At the moment it looks like our US DVD release will be in the first quarter of 2012. We can’t say with who yet, but the film has moved a number of territories worldwide already, so you won’t have any trouble seeing it if you want to. I’m kind of blown away by the level of company that has stepped up to release this, and we owe a lot of that to the great work our sales agents at Raven Banner Entertainment have done for us. They took a risk on the film, and it looks like it’s going to pay off for them (and us). We’ll have that info public in the coming months.
To JMc: Any more Festival appearances planned?
JMc: We just did a US premiere at the Fangoria Film Festival/Days of the Dead, which went great. Our next festival is the Fright Night Film Festival in Louisville, Kentucky. We’re entered in about 20 others worldwide at this point, we’re just waiting to hear back on if we’re in. We were passed by a number of the truly big festivals already, but considering the size and strength of the lineups this year, I wouldn’t take that as a knock against the film. With theatrical distribution opportunities dwindling, the major festivals are becoming dumping grounds for high-budget properties, so the competition to get an indie in is higher than ever.
The movie is quite bleak, after all most of the population has been wiped out, did the script go through many re-writes, or is the finished movie pretty much as you had envisaged it?
KH: Justin and I were pondering different ideas to make a low budget film to showcase what we could offer the genre. There were a few different ideas. Justin came up with the end of the world idea and to follow a family through it. At that point we both worked to flesh it out, then Justin wrote the script.
JMc: The script for this film, for better or worse, was written very quickly. We wrote it (and re-wrote it) over a 3 week period in May 2010, and were already doing auditions by June. This movie was originally envisioned to be a quickly produced indie flick to drop into the DTV market and grease the wheels to get our next thing off the ground, so we fast-tracked it. What’s onscreen is very close to the initial ideas, but during casting and rehearsals a fair bit of it was work-shopped and improved. The film became something a bit more during pre-production/production, and now here we are, with it making more of an impact than I anticipated. I do wish we’d taken more time on certain elements of the script, but hindsight is always 20/20. On any future films we plan to take more pre-production time doing rewrites and development…. with this one we just wanted it produced, done and doing it’s job… which it has been doing admirably.
To JF: What is your background in acting?
JF: I’ve studied with some very good people in New York City, predominantly in Method. After working with people like Robert Lewis you soon realize that Method acting is not the be all end all of the art. The truth is that over the years I’ve come to the realization that like anything else, there is more than one way to skin a cat. I think, especially for an actor, you need to be able to allow yourself the versatility of being able to recognize and explore different options when you are trying to create a character, an environment, and everything else that an actor must consider in creating the illusion of a reality.
To JF: With The Collapsed did you audition for the role or were you approached to star in it?
JF: I saw a posting on Craig’s List and replied to it. From there Justin (the director) invited me to audition and based on that one audition I was cast. When casting a movie it’s very unusual to be offered a role based on one audition, especially an on line audition. Usually there are a series of auditions and readings with different actors to determine who will work best together. I think Justin had tremendous vision and trust in casting me. He didn’t know me, he was only aware of the acting reel I sent him and the audition. To trust ones instincts and give the movie to an actor who wasn’t even in the same country is putting a lot of faith in the unknown. Anyone who is familiar with actors and the audition process knows that actors are at best flighty and prone to bouts of bullshit at the best of times. The first time I saw Justin was at the Toronto airport when he came to pick me up. I owe a lot to Justin and will be forever grateful to him for giving me the opportunity to be in his movie.
The Collapsed is obviously a quite dark film. How was the atmosphere on set whilst shooting?
JMc: Overall the atmosphere was a lot like my uncle’s trailer growing up. I miss Uncle Baedtouche, he always had the best candy…. Seriously though, despite how dark the film is, the set was a fairly light atmosphere. We joked and laughed a lot, and had a limit on the number of times each day we could use the phrase “That’s what she said”. 10 was the limit. We hit it every day. During the more emotional parts of the film the jokes stopped and it got solemn. Really felt like everyone was just fully along for the ride.
KH: It was very positive and fun. Everyone got along great sharing the same objective: to make the best film we could under the time and budget we had.
JF: It was a very happy set. I’m generally pretty easy going. You make friends with your collaborators and then you usually end up having a great time. When we finished shooting I went into a funk for a few weeks. I wasn’t happy that the shoot had ended.
To JMc: How long was the entire filmmaking process from start to finish?
JMc: We started writing in May 2010, shot August 25 – September 9th (14 days with a day break in there), had the first cut posted and screened for cast & crew by November 1st (did the screening at Rue Morgue’s screening room), was already shopping it at AFM November 3rd (which is when we first met up with Raven Banner), and then did final sound mix/color grading in February/March 2011. I guess that would mean from script to final screener was 10 months. Script to Canadian theatrical release was almost literally one year.
Were there any major setbacks during filming? Or was it relatively smooth sailing?
KH: There were minor set backs dealing with certain elements that we could not control, like excessive noise. But for the most part the shoot went pretty smooth.
JF: Fourteen days to shoot a film and Justin did it, that is really smooth sailing. I think there was only 1 day where Justin had to make compromises. We were shooting a scene were the Weavers find a car and as it happened there were people working nearby and they wouldn’t keep quiet while we were shooting. So Justin decided to shoot it without dialog and surprisingly the whole scene works very well and is quite effective in progressing the story. The way Justin directed it also demonstrates how each character handles what they have just witnessed. It’s a very effective scene all the way around.
JMc: I remember heading in the car to the subway location and being told by the TTC (Toronto Transit Commission) that we didn’t have permission to turn the lights off on the platform unless we hired a 3-person electrical crew. To throw 1 breaker. This was when I was 20 minutes away from the location and shooting in 1 hour. Considering the power was supposed to be out in the scene, that would have been a major problem…. But we ‘fixed’ that. There were tons of things that stand in the way, as there always are… producing film is a lot like fighting a war, minus the landmines, people trying to shoot you, and aerial bombardment…. So not at all like war. But it is difficult.
To JF: Personally I am a big fan of end of the world style movies. Was there any particular element that drew you to the movie?
JF: The biggest element that drew me to the picture first and foremost was that they were shooting on the RED camera. The reason why that was so important to me was that I’ve shot many movies while living in Seattle, both shorts and features, and have come to understand that in order for anyone to take you seriously it’s really very important that the movie you’re in looks like a movie, like something out of Hollywood. Most things I’ve done do not look like movies. They look like video. I had seen movies such as District 9 and, Apocalypto, which were shot on the Red. At the time that I had seen them they looked like they were shot on film so I knew that if an opportunity arose where I had a chance to work on a film that was using The RED then I had to make the effort to get into that film. I was still actively submitting to anything that I felt I was right for but as it so happened The Collapsed came along.
Now, having said all that, I was expecting at best a minor role and a mediocre script. I am a character driven actor and to my surprise when I did finally get the script I found it to be character driven and there was tremendous room for the actors to develop their character. Because the piece is essentially 4 characters exchanging ideas, dialog and are forced into an unusual set of circumstances, I found it extremely challenging to create the nuances necessary to bring Scott Weaver to life. But at the end of the day that is what an actor lives for and that is what attracted me to The Collapsed. If the script wasn’t as strong as it was, I don’t believe I could have committed to it.
To KH: On The Collapsed you were co-writer and co-producer. I also noticed that you worked as Art Director and the Special Make Up Effects as well. Was it easy to juggle all these jobs?
KH: It was not that easy to juggle considering I was working a full time job in television at the time of pre-production and shooting. I had a few really talented people working with me that helped everything to come together.
To KH: Was there any particular element that was especially difficult in helping bring this movie to life?
KH: There was nothing extremely difficult.
To JF: The Collapsed is quite a dark movie, especially with what your character Scott has to deal with, was there any particular preparation you did for the role? What was the hardest part of the movie to film?
JF: After I had read the script I had a very clear idea of what my character should be like. I of course saw him as the hero and in retrospect I was way off base. Scott Weaver is a husband and father who is flawed just like every other husband and father out there. My initial approach was to make him darker than the script required. It’s interesting because when you watch a sci-fi or fantasy film an actor can make the characters extremely dark and over the top and it will work. But with The Collapsed, although it may be considered a thriller/horror movie that is not how Justin wrote it. He wrote it as a real drama of how a family deals with being stuck in a really terrible situation and how they cope with the unknown.
As far as what was the hardest thing to prepare for in the movie? I know what you are referring to and I honestly believe that there is no way I could have rehearsed that particular scene or even attempted to prepare for it other than understanding what Justin wanted from me beforehand, and just going in and doing it. Justin and I had discussed it and I know that when it came time to shoot it I was ensconced in the character so deeply that it was just a matter of Justin saying “action” and then trusting myself to relive every moment about my “family” and to discover it all for the first time and react to it. I don’t actually remember too much about that particular day only Justin asking me if I had another 7 takes in me. I did and we shot them all.
To JF: Were you told exactly what is was that caused the collapse of society? Or was this kept secret?
JF: Justin never told us what it actually is which I think was a good choice on his part. The less we all knew the better. I think all the family members had a different idea of what it might be which then created different tensions between us, and different ideas on how to solve the problem we were faced with. This is pretty evident from the exchange each family member had with one another.
Are you all happy with the finished movie?
KH: I am very happy with the film. There are some small things that, if we had the more time in the shooting process, I would have done differently. I learned quite a lot, which I will bring to our next film projects.
JF: I can’t speak for everyone but what I can say is that with all movies there is always something that you could have done better. I can actually point to several instances in the movie where I would have done things differently regarding my performance. And it’s too easy to say “well we didn’t have the time or the budget”, but at the end of the day audiences don’t think like that. So the test then becomes, can you hold The Collapsed up to other movies of a similar genre that are on a world stage? The answer is a resounding yes, and if that is the test and it passes that test, then, I am extremely happy.
JMc: I can’t speak for everyone else, but considering the shooting schedule and everything we had to work with (which was not a lot), I couldn’t be happier. There are a number of things I do wish I could have done differently, but you never think about that stuff while you’re actually producing. It’s always in hindsight. With something like this, with why and how we made it, the fact it exists at all is an accomplishment. That it works as well as I think it does (though not everyone will agree, I’m sure), is something I’m very proud of.
To JF: Are there any amusing on-set stories that you would like to share with us?
JF: Right now nothing comes to mind but I’m sure there was. I think I was in just about every scene and all I wanted to do was get it right. So I would shoot during the day and work on the script and the next day’s scenes at night. The movie was shot in 14 days, which is unheard of for a feature. The audience will see 1 to 4 people on camera at any given time but what they may not realize is that you still need people behind the scenes to make it happen. The only reason why I mention this is because everyone knew that we only had 14 days to shoot and there were no allowances made for reshoots because the DP had to be out of the country right after the last day on set. I think everyone had a single mindedness about working on this film and it shows. People were there to do a job and they did it. We had to get it done. Justin has a lot riding on this and again to his credit I don’t believe there are too many directors out there that could have done what he did, including the catering.
If someone was thinking of watching The Collapsed but wasn’t sure, how would you sell it to them?
JF: I would tell them it’s about a family’s struggle for survival in a broken-down society. It’s a thriller with a touch of horror, and an ending that you’ll never see coming.
KH: I would sell it to them by making sure they know this is not your typical end of the world scenario. There are no zombies, no viruses, its an original take that will stay with you after your viewing.
JMc: I’d probably just say what I always do, ‘take a chance, you might like it’. If someone enjoys horror/thriller films, especially if they grew up through the films of the 70s/80s, they will find something to like here. I wouldn’t try too hard to sell it to them, because they’ve likely already made up their mind after seeing the trailer. I’m happier when someone walks into a film cold anyway….. leaves room for surprises.
To JMc: Although The Collapsed is quite violent in tone you avoided making it unnecessarily gory. People do get killed and dead bodies are discovered etc. so was this a conscious effort in order to focus on the story rather than draw viewer’s attention to distracting scenes of gore?
JMc: It was both a conscious effort to keep things restrained, and a financial decision. The film was almost reverse engineered to fit our shooting schedule, which we really couldn’t budge from very much. We had a small amount of cash to spread out over the 14 days, could only afford certain FX people for 1 or 2 days at a time, or had to schedule around when they could be available (as many were working on big shows simultaneously). For example, we could really only afford a weapon supervisor for one day so scheduled any blank-firing for only one day. At this point, we made a decision – we could either write it with a ton of gore, but most of it would end up looking cheap and Troma-level, or we could write it restrained and make it so when something gory happened, it looked really good. We knew from the start we wanted a movie that stood above most of the camp-trash (as much as I love those flicks), something that non-horror fans would watch as well, and took the ‘less-is-more’ approach. There are some very gory moments in the film, and when they happen I firmly believe that they have more impact because you haven’t been hammered with them the whole time. I like slow-burn thrillers, and that’s what we made.
To JMc: There seemed to be the occasional use of CGI during the movie, particularly in the city. Usually I am not a fan of this as it is generally done quite poorly, here though it was used sparingly and effectively. What are your thoughts on the use of CGI?
JMc: In this case it was sort of necessary. I will always be a fan of practical effects and will use them first before going the CGI route, but at a certain point you have to realize how much CGI can effectively enhance an effect, especially now. We made a post-apocalyptic film on a micro-budget, and we needed some way to get that scope. Instead of characters just pointing out it’s the end of the world, we needed to visually see it, so we took plates of downtown Toronto locations, found the best independent CGI artist we could (the talented Nick Flook, who is now working on MONSTER BRAWL), and let him have at it. It’s not overdone, it’s subtle, and it absolutely worked. Something you may not realize, because it’s so effective, is that some of the gore is CGI as well. We used real squibs, tubes and blood-packs for everything, built body parts to be torn into, but then Nick went in and beefed up the splatter digitally. It’s some of the best indie CG gore I’ve ever seen, personally. I think CGI has it’s place, and I’m not fully in the “practical only” camp so many purists seem to operate in. I believe you use the best tools available to tell your story….. but I will always find a practical solution first and then turn to CGI to enhance it.
To JMc: The style and look of the film seemed very deliberate, in fact it seemed to me to be a real departure from many films I see today. The feel seemed to sweep along rather than jar the viewer with rapid fire imagery. This was further enhanced by the musical score? Again, were you deliberately trying to avoid the “machine gun style” of filmmaking and return to a more classic approach to film, or was it just a case that the style fit the story more?
JMc: Personally, I hate the ‘rapid-cut’ style that films like SAW made popular. That sort of fast-rack-focusing insert edit thing that draws you right out of the film, and kills all the tension. Those movies had great skeletons and story, but were completely undermined in editing (but I don’t blame the editors, it was a stylistic choice consciously made, one I just don’t personally enjoy), making them less than they could have been. This isn’t a knock against James Wan (loved INSIDIOUS – which wasn’t fast-cut style) or anything, but I often argue with people that compare two similar films, SAW and HOSTEL, about why one is effective and one isn’t. With SAW when one person is in a trap the camera zooms around them like it’s a NIN video and you lose all the suspense in that moment. Music videos aren’t suspenseful, they’re flashy. With HOSTEL, when someone is strapped to a chair, you are left with long shots on the actor’s face as they react to what’s about to happen to them. You empathize with the character, you feel their tension…. I like to take the same approach with my own flicks. I’m a fan of good cinematography establishing an atmosphere, and editing should never kill that. I’m far more unsettled by a horror movie where someone walks through a void black space and we never see the danger, than a movie where you get 1000 quick cuts of someone removing a victim’s gallbladder. That’s not really horror to me. It’s surgery. It’s why Japanese horror became so big a few years back – despite the whole ‘ghost girl’ cliché, they really understand the power of mood and tension. Another visual cue I took with this film was from Von Trier’s ANTICHRIST. The forest feels alive in that film, and I wanted the same sort of thing. Problem is the style we used has been alienating some of the audience, especially those used to the quick-cut style, so they find it slow. All I say is go back and watch a horror film from the classic eras – 60s, 70s, 80s, etc….. and you’ll see where I’m coming from. The folks that find tension in atmosphere, that haven’t been beaten over the head by the flash-cutters, seem to really like the film. Our composer Rob Kleiner really understood that too, which is why his score lets things breathe. The story also worked way better with this style. I didn’t want to make a flashy ‘cool’ movie, I wanted to make a film.
To JF: Although I would not view The Collapsed as strictly a horror movie, there are many other elements to it, are you a fan of the genre? And if so do you have any particular favorite movies?
JF: I love anything that will scare the living daylights out of me. When I watch slasher movies I’m really interested in seeing the special effects gory stuff. The ability of film makers to show dismemberment to the point of thinking out loud “Holy crap how did they do that?”
The movie that stands out in my mind and I have no desire to see it any time soon or ever again is The Exorcist. That movie had everything in it, horror, drama, the gross-out factor…. and it was superbly directed, and the actors all did a wonderful job.
Are there any particular movies, or books, that influenced you in making The Collapsed?
JMc: I think everything you do as an artist is influenced by everything you grew up enjoying and absorbed. There are elements of a lot of things in the film, but to pick out specifics would take all day. Even certain camera angles are influenced by other films – there’s a great camera-mounted-on-the-top of an ambulance shot in David Morlet’s MUTANTS that I adapted to fit the family’s car. There’s bits of Romero, Larry Cohen, Carpenter, Raimi, etc. One of the films that really shaped the way I thought about story when younger was John Carpenter’s IN THE MOUTH OF MADNESS, and I think a fair bit of what we write has that same ‘interpretation friendly’ sort of feel. In the same vein, I’m also a huge fan of Lovecraft, Barker and King, and the way they built these massive universes with multiple possible worlds to visit, and tons of alternate takes on religion, metaphysics and evil. So far, most of what Kevin and I have written is connected, existing in the same universe. Again, I could go all day telling you where many of the elements of the film came to me, but that would be pointless. I wear my influences on my sleeve, but I never try and direct something that’s merely homage to something else. If a familiar element is there, it’s buried enough in the whole package that it’s merely one DNA strand of many, contributing to make an entirely new organism.
KH: When we were conceiving and writing the story, films like the THE ROAD and THE CRAZIES were floating around in our heads. Sam Raimi , David Lynch and horror films from the late 70's and early 80's were also influences. I really enjoy creature driven horror films. I love my monsters.
To KH: What artists and SFX people do you turn to for inspiration? What are your goals with art?
KH: I love fantasy and horror art. Artists like Frank Frazetta, Boris Vallejo, Joe Jusko, Simon Bisely, to name a few. There are so many. SAVAGE SWORD OF CONAN and HEAVY METAL MAGAZINE had a strong influence on me when I was growing up. I remember when I was pretty young seeing AN AMERICAN WEREWOLF IN LONDON and it automatically had a huge impact on me. After that, Rick Baker was a huge influence on what I wanted to be. After many years of witnessing amazing creature and SFX on screen, I grew to love the works of such artists as Stan Winston, Steve Johnson, Steve Wang, Kevin Yagher. My goal is to create art and films that will be highly respected and as influential as the work produced by the masters that inspired me to do what I do.
The finished movie seems deliberately vague in terms of what brought about society’s downfall. Was this an intentional plan? Personally speaking I liked the fact that it was left to my imagination.
KH: It was deliberate. It’s always interesting to give the audience something to think about, and to hear their thoughts and outlook on what they have seen.
JMc: We definitely knew all the finer details while writing it, we just chose to leave some of them out. Built the film like a puzzle. There are very good answers, and you will get them in our future films… at the moment you sort of know the what and how, but not the why and the finer details of the what. Even that sentence was intentionally vague…. Let’s just say that when we get a chance to get THE ETERNAL and it’s graphic novel out, you’ll get a chance to understand THE COLLAPSED even better.
To KH: I’m never one to give away spoilers for movies, and I don’t plan on starting now, but The Collapsed should definitely surprise viewers in its outcome. Was there another ending planned at all? Or was the ending that we see in the film a very definite decision from the get-go?
KH: There was never another ending, this was the original concept.
To KH: This was your first writing credit, do you have plans to write more? What are you future plans in film?
KH: I do have plans to write more. There are many things lurking in the minds of Justin and myself. In the future I hope to unleash them to the world for their viewing pleasure.
To JMc: What’s next for you? I know the SKULL WORLD documentary is due for release later this year, do you have plans for more documentaries, or is there another feature film in the works?
JMc: Yeah, SKULL WORLD should be done post in the next couple of months. I was originally rushing to make festival deadlines on that one, but at a certain point I decided to take the advice Colin Geddes (TIFF Midnight Madness) gave me back in February, and just edit it at the pace that serves the story best. I have 220 hours of raw footage on that one, and because it’s a doc, can take the story in any direction… so I’m taking my time. As for future releases, we’ve got a lot of ‘coals in the fire’.
To JF: What are your plans for the future?
JF: I just finished shooting another movie where I played a Mexican, very different to Scott Weaver. I personally would never have cast me as a Mexican but most times an actor doesn’t see what a director sees. I’m currently living in LA and making the rounds, auditioning, seeing agents and just generally trying to get noticed. I have some showcases coming up and I’m looking forward to those. Just like every other actor out there I’m looking for my next gig.
Would you all work together in the future? Or do you already have plan?
JMc: Kevin and I have written 5 features so far together (including The Collapsed), and have been doing projects (music videos, short films) since about 2003. He’s the godfather of my as-of-yet un-kidnapped child. That last one isn’t true. But we are very good friends and have been coming up with concepts for long enough that we’ll definitely continue to work together. What our next film is we do not know fully, but we’re still determined to get The Eternal made, or any of the other flicks we’ve written. It’ll likely be either The Eternal or Foster’s Bane next. As for John, I really like the work he did in The Collapsed, so if we find room for him, we’ll use him. He’s very talented.
KH: Justin and I have about four films in different stages of development at the moment. We’re hoping to make these with the UG family that we have established in the last five years.
JF: It’s always difficult to get the same group of actors to work together on another project. Schedules change or don’t line up or in our case we are in 2 different countries. Right now Steve and Lise are in Canada, and Anna and I are in LA. As a matter of fact Anna and I have been trying to get together for about 6 weeks but we’ve been working on different movies and our shooting schedules have conflicted whenever we tried to make plans. Hopefully we’ll get together soon and reminisce. I would work with them all given the opportunity and I would definitely drop whatever I was doing to work with Justin and his team again, in a heartbeat.
Is there anything that you would all like to add?
JF: We’ve covered a lot of ground here and my fingers are getting tired. Once again I’d just like to thank you for giving me an opportunity to talk about The Collapsed. It’s a really good movie with extremely high production values and more importantly a great story. Thank you.
JMc: I always write far too much in these text-based interviews, so I’m going to be brief and just say three words: “See the movie”.
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